Hello classic crew and welcome to this week’s discussion thread! Today I want to know: Do you think your friends should share your values, or just the person you marry? I can’t wait to hear your thoughts!
I wanted to quickly share my thoughts, too! I think that if you have a really close friend, someone whose opinion you really depend on, it's important to share values so that she can give you advice that's in line with your worldview and perspectives. She can help you make better choices based on the things you both believe, and that's a really wonderful thing. For friends who are more casual, for people you hang out with and simply enjoy their company - I don't think you need to share values on a deep level!
I think it's important to have friends who share some values, but not all. It's a good way to keep ourselves out of an 'echo chamber' because everyone is sharing their different beliefs and ideas about important topics. These discussions can turn into great learning experiences as well. However, some people may feel too strongly about a topic to be ok around those they disagree with, and they may choose to stop being friends with them. That is perfectly ok. As far as the person you marry, I think it's more important to share the same values because you'll be living together for the rest of your lives, and may be raising a family together, so it's important to have shared values as part of a strong base.
To some extent, yes. Personally, I am in a situation where most of my friends are much more left leaning while my boyfriend is more conservative leaning. My friends don’t know many of my values beyond things I might post online or say in conversation. I’ll ask them questions about their views and typically we can have good conversation, which I find amusing since I am not liberal and closeted with most of my views with my friends. Overall, partners/spouse views and values matter more. You need to agree on how to live and what a partnership looks like and the roles men and women play. Friends don’t matter as much. But I’m bias, if I shared my views with some friends I am afraid I’ll lose them. I’m aware of my hypocrisy.
I totally get that. My friends seem to be more left leaning than I am, but because of my unconfrontational nature, I tend to keep my beliefs closeted due to the fear of losing them. Probably not good thing, to be honest lol I agree. I think sharing the same (or similar) views with a partner/spouse is more important. They'll stick with you, thick or thin, but friends are more likely to come and go throughout life.
I feel very similarly Kelly. Thanks for your sharing. I think it is essential to have similar values with one's spouse since you will be likely be raising kids together. But my husband and I are also conservative compared to many of our friends from college and often stay quiet around hot topics. It is upsetting to feel like you are hiding your true feelings. In our case, I don't think our friends would dump us but might be surprised we are as conservative as we are. We need to be brave. With age it gets easier :)
I think they should share some basic values, but they certainly don't need to share all of them, or echo all of your political viewpoints. Some values are more important than others. I will say that if they disagree with you politically or values - wise, then they have to be the type of person who can accept someone to disagrees with them. I've lost a few friends over the last 5 years because they didn't like who I voted for or couldn't accept anyone that disagreed with them. They were all left leaning. I do have one left leaning friend who I occasionally have interesting discussions with, she is fine with us disagreeing, and both of us are always civil to each other. If you have that, then it can work. We also agree on many things, and can often find some middle ground.
I have realized that I've gotten more hardened in some of my positions over the last 2 years especially. I used to be a lot more accepting of people who disagree with me, but now there are certain things I can't get past, that I never would have thought about even 5 years ago. For example, if you argue to have my kid masked for 8 hours a day at school, we will never be friends.
(This is my first substack/discussion I’ve participated in and I’m really loving it) I have a question, what if your views have changed since you were younger? In my case, I’ve changed a lot since college (29 now). But most of my friends don’t know that. For an example, I have three close female friends who mention things to me that I simply do not want to hear about and really don’t support. One is having an affair with a married coworker and acting like it’s funny, another is starting a relationship with a man who left his wife immediately after meeting her, and another asked me how she could tell a man she went on a date with that she is only interested in him physically. All of these don’t sit well with me. But girlfriends like talking about their relationships so I don’t know what to do.
Hi Kelly. I am definitely in the SAME boat and find myself thinking these same things all the time about friends. My views have really changed a lot since college & grad school and others have stayed the same. I had a close friend who had illicit affairs with married men. I usually tried not to say to much in that situation because it is so immoral. My Mom always told me.. " You can pick your friends and you can pick your nose. BUT, you can't pick your friend's nose" So I would mostly try to avoid the topic with them. My friend eventually stopped sleeping with married men and got married to a new man and now has her own family. I just prayed for her the whole time. Hopefully your friends see the light! Hang in there!
I'm 47 now, but when I was your age, I had a friend who cheated on her fiance with a man who also had a fiance. I stopped talking to her, but I regret it now. I think the PP had a better solution, which was to pray for the friend. Over the last 20 years, I've realized that none of us are perfect. I think she made a mistake and probably realizes it now that she's married with kids. I've done things I never thought I would do, that I now regret. I hope that anyone who knew about the mistakes I've made, would be more forgiving than I was to my old friend.
Melissa ( nice name, BTW!) I have also cut off friends in the past for not living up to my "standards" and also regret it. I have also done things in my life I am not proud of and never imagined I would do, this is how I landed where I am now. I realized the most help I can give is praying and not judging-- and this was learned the hard way by my own harshness.
As a left leaning person I get along with conservatives quite nicely. There are a few that I haven't gotten along with simply because they didn't like me which is perfectly fine. Heck my parents and most of my family are conservative so it's not really news for me to have right leaning friends. It's actually fun having discussions with friends who don't agree with my views and I've hosted twitter spaces where I moderate debates with my left leaning and right leaning friends
I think that close friends should share the same values but the person that you marry matters more. Because a close friend is someone that I would confined in I think they should have the same values as I would need to trust them.
I'm in a very pivotal point in my life as I am making a larger effort to not only transition my lifestyle toward a more conservative, modest, and faith-driven one, but being more open about it, too. It has changed my life drastically in terms of my friend circle. My friend group was composed of friends from college, all for the most part left-leaning... and it was fairly large, too, coming from a sorority. Now, I feel that I only have a handful of friends who choose to talk or respond to me and all of them are right-leaning. So, as much as I'd like to have more left-leaning friends (and agree that you shouldn't limit yourself to friends who have the same viewpoints as you), it seems like (at least for me) people naturally fall into friend circles of like-minded people. I'm slowly coming to terms with this in my own life, and am forcing myself to look at it as a positive thing, knowing that as long as I stay open to others but firm in my beliefs, those who are right for my life will find themselves in my life, and vice versa.
My best friend of 25 years and maid of honor decided to stop being friends with me because of my faith change... I try really hard not to generalize, but I have never once experienced a conservative shun or choose not to be friends with me when I was liberal, yet have lost several friends including her once becoming conservative (only to find that many of the friends I did have were conservative and are now the ones I choose to be close with).
I have some values and beliefs that are not negotiable to me. But generally I noticed I have become more open to other views. I have to admit I often thought about people who had very different opinions from me that they were either not able to understand the situation at hand or acting in bad faith.
My relationship to a man who is way more conservative and libertarian than me made me realise that it's often neither of the two - people just have different opinions on what's the best for everybody, without being too dumb to understand it, or even acting nefariously.
That was a very valuable lesson for me, since media usually tells us otherwise
I think that friends should share some values, its great to have different influences in your life and have open discussions. As a vegan I have many vegan friends because we can understand some of the struggles that come with being vegan but I also have meat eater friends too, I can influence them to be more mindful of animals and they also share other values my vegan friends don't have. You'll never be able to find someone with the exact same values as you, I dont think even with a partner but I feel we need to come together and talk through things rather than shut people out.
Hello, fellow vegan! It's true that veganism is a topic of discussion that seems "not severe or controversial enough" to be able to have open discussions with non-vegans about. And so far, I've navigated my life fine doing so. I actually only know one other vegan in real life and that's my husband. Both my husband and I agree that we needed to marry someone who was vegan because of our ethical beliefs around it. Having said that, when you extend the same logic of animal rights and sentients to unborn children, it's a completely different and drastically more controversial ballgame. For us, it just seemed like a step closer toward creating a smaller circle for ourselves. It can be lonely, sometimes, but at least we have each other.
I think it really depends. Unfortunately over covid I realised a lot of people I thought were friends, are actually very judgemental. Same with the trans issue. Which made me pretty sad. I think for friendships it can be possible to not share all values because you can have several friends and speak to them about different things, but for a relationship ie a romantic one, its imperative to share values.
I believe it is important to have some shared values with friends. The unifying thing I have with almost all of my friends is shared faith. Almost all of my friends are Roman Catholic, as am I. The levels of observance do vary among my friends, but we all agree it is our religious authority in the end. Most of my friends are liberals which I default identify with since I don't know what to call myself! I have a couple moderate friends. A lot of people from different areas of my life exchange with me on Messenger from my Facebook account to talk politics even if we don't agree, because they know I will engage with respect. Family is another thing for me-- I have one Conservative aunt who knows about my journey, but I cannot imagine telling my parents. EVER. I was NOT raised in a Conservative home. We do have traditional values to some extent ( mine being the most traditional), but politics was discussed often at the dinner table and always liberal. That is a whole other topic for discussion!
I’m with you on the family stuff, same boat. And so true. Best I can do is pray my friends will see the error of their ways. But I’ll also pray for my own strength to say something that could change their minds.
I think it’s important that your close friends share most if not all of your values, but it’s also good having friends with differing views so that you can discuss different topics and learn from each other
My friends are my friends mostly because we share values, as in that's what brought us together. However, to the extent a given person and I have grown apart, it's been because our values started to diverge. (I've gotten significantly more libertarian since college and some folks I know have SEVERE TDS, for example.)
Given that repeated data-gathering has shown that Democrat women won't be friends with anyone with a different opinion, I don't know how many women have a *choice* in this area anymore.
As far as the person I marry, I think I could've married someone of a different political persuasion before the 60s, but once you add the sexual rebellion, abortion, sodomy, etc., to the mix, I can't make a man who's OK with that happy, if that makes any sense? If his values diverge from mine to that strong of a degree, to him being OK with killing a pre-born child, that's a symptom of how he views women, and I don't want to be married a man whose views of women allow for contraception, let alone abortion.
I wanted to quickly share my thoughts, too! I think that if you have a really close friend, someone whose opinion you really depend on, it's important to share values so that she can give you advice that's in line with your worldview and perspectives. She can help you make better choices based on the things you both believe, and that's a really wonderful thing. For friends who are more casual, for people you hang out with and simply enjoy their company - I don't think you need to share values on a deep level!
That is a great point. The level of closeness in the friendship can and should make a difference, for sure.
I think it's important to have friends who share some values, but not all. It's a good way to keep ourselves out of an 'echo chamber' because everyone is sharing their different beliefs and ideas about important topics. These discussions can turn into great learning experiences as well. However, some people may feel too strongly about a topic to be ok around those they disagree with, and they may choose to stop being friends with them. That is perfectly ok. As far as the person you marry, I think it's more important to share the same values because you'll be living together for the rest of your lives, and may be raising a family together, so it's important to have shared values as part of a strong base.
I agree! It's always great to have those friends that you can disagree with respectfully and hopefully learn from!
To some extent, yes. Personally, I am in a situation where most of my friends are much more left leaning while my boyfriend is more conservative leaning. My friends don’t know many of my values beyond things I might post online or say in conversation. I’ll ask them questions about their views and typically we can have good conversation, which I find amusing since I am not liberal and closeted with most of my views with my friends. Overall, partners/spouse views and values matter more. You need to agree on how to live and what a partnership looks like and the roles men and women play. Friends don’t matter as much. But I’m bias, if I shared my views with some friends I am afraid I’ll lose them. I’m aware of my hypocrisy.
I totally get that. My friends seem to be more left leaning than I am, but because of my unconfrontational nature, I tend to keep my beliefs closeted due to the fear of losing them. Probably not good thing, to be honest lol I agree. I think sharing the same (or similar) views with a partner/spouse is more important. They'll stick with you, thick or thin, but friends are more likely to come and go throughout life.
I feel very similarly Kelly. Thanks for your sharing. I think it is essential to have similar values with one's spouse since you will be likely be raising kids together. But my husband and I are also conservative compared to many of our friends from college and often stay quiet around hot topics. It is upsetting to feel like you are hiding your true feelings. In our case, I don't think our friends would dump us but might be surprised we are as conservative as we are. We need to be brave. With age it gets easier :)
I think they should share some basic values, but they certainly don't need to share all of them, or echo all of your political viewpoints. Some values are more important than others. I will say that if they disagree with you politically or values - wise, then they have to be the type of person who can accept someone to disagrees with them. I've lost a few friends over the last 5 years because they didn't like who I voted for or couldn't accept anyone that disagreed with them. They were all left leaning. I do have one left leaning friend who I occasionally have interesting discussions with, she is fine with us disagreeing, and both of us are always civil to each other. If you have that, then it can work. We also agree on many things, and can often find some middle ground.
I have realized that I've gotten more hardened in some of my positions over the last 2 years especially. I used to be a lot more accepting of people who disagree with me, but now there are certain things I can't get past, that I never would have thought about even 5 years ago. For example, if you argue to have my kid masked for 8 hours a day at school, we will never be friends.
(This is my first substack/discussion I’ve participated in and I’m really loving it) I have a question, what if your views have changed since you were younger? In my case, I’ve changed a lot since college (29 now). But most of my friends don’t know that. For an example, I have three close female friends who mention things to me that I simply do not want to hear about and really don’t support. One is having an affair with a married coworker and acting like it’s funny, another is starting a relationship with a man who left his wife immediately after meeting her, and another asked me how she could tell a man she went on a date with that she is only interested in him physically. All of these don’t sit well with me. But girlfriends like talking about their relationships so I don’t know what to do.
Hi Kelly. I am definitely in the SAME boat and find myself thinking these same things all the time about friends. My views have really changed a lot since college & grad school and others have stayed the same. I had a close friend who had illicit affairs with married men. I usually tried not to say to much in that situation because it is so immoral. My Mom always told me.. " You can pick your friends and you can pick your nose. BUT, you can't pick your friend's nose" So I would mostly try to avoid the topic with them. My friend eventually stopped sleeping with married men and got married to a new man and now has her own family. I just prayed for her the whole time. Hopefully your friends see the light! Hang in there!
I'm 47 now, but when I was your age, I had a friend who cheated on her fiance with a man who also had a fiance. I stopped talking to her, but I regret it now. I think the PP had a better solution, which was to pray for the friend. Over the last 20 years, I've realized that none of us are perfect. I think she made a mistake and probably realizes it now that she's married with kids. I've done things I never thought I would do, that I now regret. I hope that anyone who knew about the mistakes I've made, would be more forgiving than I was to my old friend.
Melissa ( nice name, BTW!) I have also cut off friends in the past for not living up to my "standards" and also regret it. I have also done things in my life I am not proud of and never imagined I would do, this is how I landed where I am now. I realized the most help I can give is praying and not judging-- and this was learned the hard way by my own harshness.
As a left leaning person I get along with conservatives quite nicely. There are a few that I haven't gotten along with simply because they didn't like me which is perfectly fine. Heck my parents and most of my family are conservative so it's not really news for me to have right leaning friends. It's actually fun having discussions with friends who don't agree with my views and I've hosted twitter spaces where I moderate debates with my left leaning and right leaning friends
That sounds really valuable! I can imagine it sparks some interesting debates :)
I think that close friends should share the same values but the person that you marry matters more. Because a close friend is someone that I would confined in I think they should have the same values as I would need to trust them.
I agree with you regarding close friends, Angela!
I'm in a very pivotal point in my life as I am making a larger effort to not only transition my lifestyle toward a more conservative, modest, and faith-driven one, but being more open about it, too. It has changed my life drastically in terms of my friend circle. My friend group was composed of friends from college, all for the most part left-leaning... and it was fairly large, too, coming from a sorority. Now, I feel that I only have a handful of friends who choose to talk or respond to me and all of them are right-leaning. So, as much as I'd like to have more left-leaning friends (and agree that you shouldn't limit yourself to friends who have the same viewpoints as you), it seems like (at least for me) people naturally fall into friend circles of like-minded people. I'm slowly coming to terms with this in my own life, and am forcing myself to look at it as a positive thing, knowing that as long as I stay open to others but firm in my beliefs, those who are right for my life will find themselves in my life, and vice versa.
My best friend of 25 years and maid of honor decided to stop being friends with me because of my faith change... I try really hard not to generalize, but I have never once experienced a conservative shun or choose not to be friends with me when I was liberal, yet have lost several friends including her once becoming conservative (only to find that many of the friends I did have were conservative and are now the ones I choose to be close with).
I have some values and beliefs that are not negotiable to me. But generally I noticed I have become more open to other views. I have to admit I often thought about people who had very different opinions from me that they were either not able to understand the situation at hand or acting in bad faith.
My relationship to a man who is way more conservative and libertarian than me made me realise that it's often neither of the two - people just have different opinions on what's the best for everybody, without being too dumb to understand it, or even acting nefariously.
That was a very valuable lesson for me, since media usually tells us otherwise
I think that friends should share some values, its great to have different influences in your life and have open discussions. As a vegan I have many vegan friends because we can understand some of the struggles that come with being vegan but I also have meat eater friends too, I can influence them to be more mindful of animals and they also share other values my vegan friends don't have. You'll never be able to find someone with the exact same values as you, I dont think even with a partner but I feel we need to come together and talk through things rather than shut people out.
Hello, fellow vegan! It's true that veganism is a topic of discussion that seems "not severe or controversial enough" to be able to have open discussions with non-vegans about. And so far, I've navigated my life fine doing so. I actually only know one other vegan in real life and that's my husband. Both my husband and I agree that we needed to marry someone who was vegan because of our ethical beliefs around it. Having said that, when you extend the same logic of animal rights and sentients to unborn children, it's a completely different and drastically more controversial ballgame. For us, it just seemed like a step closer toward creating a smaller circle for ourselves. It can be lonely, sometimes, but at least we have each other.
omg totally, I hope to marry a vegan but it's hard as many vegan men here in Australia are also anti natalists...so my options are limited.
I think it really depends. Unfortunately over covid I realised a lot of people I thought were friends, are actually very judgemental. Same with the trans issue. Which made me pretty sad. I think for friendships it can be possible to not share all values because you can have several friends and speak to them about different things, but for a relationship ie a romantic one, its imperative to share values.
I believe it is important to have some shared values with friends. The unifying thing I have with almost all of my friends is shared faith. Almost all of my friends are Roman Catholic, as am I. The levels of observance do vary among my friends, but we all agree it is our religious authority in the end. Most of my friends are liberals which I default identify with since I don't know what to call myself! I have a couple moderate friends. A lot of people from different areas of my life exchange with me on Messenger from my Facebook account to talk politics even if we don't agree, because they know I will engage with respect. Family is another thing for me-- I have one Conservative aunt who knows about my journey, but I cannot imagine telling my parents. EVER. I was NOT raised in a Conservative home. We do have traditional values to some extent ( mine being the most traditional), but politics was discussed often at the dinner table and always liberal. That is a whole other topic for discussion!
I’m with you on the family stuff, same boat. And so true. Best I can do is pray my friends will see the error of their ways. But I’ll also pray for my own strength to say something that could change their minds.
I think it’s important that your close friends share most if not all of your values, but it’s also good having friends with differing views so that you can discuss different topics and learn from each other
My friends are my friends mostly because we share values, as in that's what brought us together. However, to the extent a given person and I have grown apart, it's been because our values started to diverge. (I've gotten significantly more libertarian since college and some folks I know have SEVERE TDS, for example.)
Given that repeated data-gathering has shown that Democrat women won't be friends with anyone with a different opinion, I don't know how many women have a *choice* in this area anymore.
As far as the person I marry, I think I could've married someone of a different political persuasion before the 60s, but once you add the sexual rebellion, abortion, sodomy, etc., to the mix, I can't make a man who's OK with that happy, if that makes any sense? If his values diverge from mine to that strong of a degree, to him being OK with killing a pre-born child, that's a symptom of how he views women, and I don't want to be married a man whose views of women allow for contraception, let alone abortion.